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    Superhero Collab

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    Doctor Jensen
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    Superhero Collab

    Post  Doctor Jensen on April 17th 2016, 6:53 pm

    Heya people, I was thinking, I'd like to get more involved on this site again, and we've always been a group that thrives on collabs, so why not start another one that we can keep going with? Ages ago (I know some of us remember) we all were engaged in a story about Superheroes on "Earth Delta."

    Here are the links, for reference:
    Story thread: http://halo-database.forumotion.com/t84-heroes-and-demons-superhero-collab

    Discussion Thread: http://halo-database.forumotion.com/t85-heroes-and-demons-otd-thread

    Character Thread: http://halo-database.forumotion.com/t89-heroes-and-demons-cast

    Anyway, since summer's just about to start again, and we'll all be back on the webs again, I was thinking we should do this. I've been into superheroes lately, but, what do you all think?
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    Manny
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Manny on April 17th 2016, 7:43 pm

    Jensen and I got this shit on LOCK.

    If you guys wanna join then that's cool too. I guess. I mean, only if you REALLY want to. It's all the same to me. But seriously, if you guys want to join it's cool. I have no problem with it but it's like up to you guys. I'll be fine either way... But your always welcome to participate. Only if YOU want to though. I'll be fine either way. No pressure or anything.
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    Bad John
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Bad John on April 17th 2016, 8:38 pm

    I'm in.

    Doctor Jensen
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Doctor Jensen on April 17th 2016, 9:51 pm

    Okay, cool. So what exactly are we going for? There's plenty of tropes that we can play off of.

    We can play the outcasts trying to do the right thing that are chased by the public. Basically, they're hated by everyone.

    We also have a Justice League/Avengers type of thing where they are fighting against an ultimate enemy?

    Plenty of ideas out there.
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    Bad John
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Bad John on April 18th 2016, 12:19 am

    Hm. I was thinking we could revamp it a bit, and start semi-fresh with a kind of X-Men vibe.

    Maybe Saffore (Leader of Kyova Medical Company who gave Jordan his prosthetics) owns a small island where she shelters Meta Humans and helps them get in touch with and control their powers. In return, the willing Metas perform humanitarian services, including bringing hostile Metas to justice.

    The idea of being a Meta Human isn't glamorous at all; they're frowned upon by the general public, and covertly targeted by the government constantly. There are Meta Human forces who fight back against said tyranny, and they despise the protagonists as "race traitors."

    If we did that, I'd probably make a new character. As much as I love Beta, he's got kind of a DC vibe. I'm more into Marvel.

    Thoughts?

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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Doctor Jensen on April 18th 2016, 1:11 am

    Seems like a good idea to me. I would like a Marvel feel for this kind of collab as well. That way we can keep it kind of light hearted, but still have a story to it.

    Why don't we set this in the same city (Crisis City) as we had planned earlier. That way we can build off of the universe that we already had. So, we can always start with the Demon running off and causing terror in the city while we fight to settle him down again. This will bring all of our heroes together to be united under Saffore.

    I'm redesigning my own character as well. He's kind of like Venom, but isn't going to just kill everyone. I'll update you on the character soon.

    As for the villian. I was thinking that we have a big bad guy again. But, let's not make him so consumed with world domination or anything. Let's make his motives a little more complex. In other words, let's make someone who isn't your typical supervillian. Let's give him some interesting motivation that throws off the would-be-reader.

    What do you all think?
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    Bad John
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Bad John on April 18th 2016, 1:45 am

    I'm down with doing the Crisis City thing. Minor tweaks to the universe and build off the foundation we had. What I hate about DC is how utterly joyless it can be. With a more Marvel feel we can tell a decent, heartfelt story, but have some fun with it.

    I'm definitely keeping the Rockettes though. Never got to use them as much as I wanted.

    Hm. For a main arc villain, maybe someone who's ultimately sympathetic, but opposed to Saffore in his goals?

    Doctor Saffore wants to prove to the general public that Meta Humans aren't monsters; they're people. She does so by advocating for them, taking them in, helping them use their powers for good and (if they're willing) Heroic purposes.

    The villain has witnessed the horrors that the government, and the public, will visit upon his kin, the Meta Humans. He intends to protect Meta Humans at any cost, including cold blooded murder of noncombatants. He's fighting an active war against the government, and views Saffore and her Meta Humans as respectable, misguided enemies, and though he isn't actively targeting the good guys, he will kill them too if they get in his way.

    As for my character, I was thinking a character who is largely similar to Beta in terms of personality, but different in terms of skillset.

    João (Jo-Ow) Nunez Reyes. His powers are superhuman senses, strength, stamina, and a considerable healing factor. He can heal from broken bones or severe bodily harm in a matter of weeks, but it takes a fair amount of bed rest. He isn't exactly Wolverine, who heals as fast as you hurt him, but he's remarkably durable and can bounce back from things that would leave a normal person in traction for years.

    His strength and speed put him head and shoulders above most normal human combatants physically, but certain enemies can brush him aside rather easily due to his powers being physical in nature. To combat this, Saffore often researches his opponents, and has her technical staff outfit him with weapons suited for the job. He's her all purpose "stick" when it comes to beating enemy meta-humans.

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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Doctor Jensen on April 18th 2016, 2:16 am

    So we can keep it dark, but have fun with it, like Marvel does sometimes. Think the Daredevil series.

    An Idea I have that might be controversial: I think it would also be interesting if we made the villian somewhat hesitant to kill the heroes. I never see that in superhero movies. What if the heroes were less hesitant to kill mutants than the villians were? But they wouldn't kill normal people while the villians would. Just my two cents there. Seems kind of interesting.

    I like João. Could be a good hero. What makes him memorable as a character? Is it his durability? I'm sure there's more to be seen, considering he's in the development phase (just like mine is).

    I don't know my character's name, but his Superhero name is "Dragoon." Like Venom, he bonds with a symbiote of sorts. This symbiote is an alien substance that is normally used to enhance said aliens and their physical characteristics. For Dragoon, a scientist an athlete, he is thus endowed with incredible jumping abilities (he's known for his jumping). As a fighter he receives incredible power and agility. Because of the way he fights, he becomes known as the Dragoon of his city (a soldier, if you will).

    In the beginning he's more of an anti-hero, if that. He's brutal and doesn't shy away from killing (at least, in the beginning). Fighting is his way, and he's known for being a heavily armed combat master.

    Fun fact about the alien suit he wears. It can't be removed, and he doesn't know how to remove it. So he's always inside of it. It takes care of his fecal matter and pee and such. Also, he has the ability to camouflage with his surroundings. Cloaking, I guess, but only for a certain amount of time, or it will exhaust the user and kill him.

    More to come for him.
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    Bad John
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Bad John on April 18th 2016, 3:08 am

    Doctor Jensen wrote:So we can keep it dark, but have fun with it, like Marvel does sometimes. Think the Daredevil series.

    An Idea I have that might be controversial: I think it would also be interesting if we made the villian somewhat hesitant to kill the heroes. I never see that in superhero movies. What if the heroes were less hesitant to kill mutants than the villians were? But they wouldn't kill normal people while the villians would. Just my two cents there. Seems kind of interesting.

    I like João. Could be a good hero. What makes him memorable as a character? Is it his durability? I'm sure there's more to be seen, considering he's in the development phase (just like mine is).

    I don't know my character's name, but his Superhero name is "Dragoon." Like Venom, he bonds with a symbiote of sorts. This symbiote is an alien substance that is normally used to enhance said aliens and their physical characteristics. For Dragoon, a scientist an athlete, he is thus endowed with incredible jumping abilities (he's known for his jumping). As a fighter he receives incredible power and agility. Because of the way he fights, he becomes known as the Dragoon of his city (a soldier, if you will).

    In the beginning he's more of an anti-hero, if that. He's brutal and doesn't shy away from killing (at least, in the beginning). Fighting is his way, and he's known for being a heavily armed combat master.

    Fun fact about the alien suit he wears. It can't be removed, and he doesn't know how to remove it. So he's always inside of it. It takes care of his fecal matter and pee and such. Also, he has the ability to camouflage with his surroundings. Cloaking, I guess, but only for a certain amount of time, or it will exhaust the user and kill him.

    More to come for him.

    Alien suit, eh? Interesting. Does it have a personality distinct from his?

    As for João, what makes him most special is his skill, and his relentless nature. He's well trained in terms of combat, and can tackle even insurmountable threats via careful observation, trial, and error. If he fails and is injured, he's withdrawn, and goes at the threat again once he heals.

    No villain has ever beaten him twice in a row; either he learns and adapts for his rematch, or Saffore and her team evaluate the enemy and find a weak point for João to exploit.

    As for your idea for an empathetic villain, that's a great idea, and I second it 100%. A villain who's willing to spare the heroes because he sees himself in them, or thinks they're "redeemable" and that he can sway them. Has a code of honor, and in some respects is heroic; he's protecting mutants from a cruel, brutal government.

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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Doctor Jensen on April 18th 2016, 10:57 am

    So basically, he's adaptable, right? I like that. It makes for some good fights. It'd be interesting if you tell the audience that he doesn't lose twice, then late in the story he loses for a second time. It would be surprising, I think.

    As for the alien suit, that is the question, man. I was thinking about giving it a personality, or making it subtly change him. Or subtly influence him into doing things he wouldn't normally do.

    I like the idea for the villain. I'd like to see what Manny has to say, too. He's studying for exams for the next day, so he should be able to talk about it more. I wonder if Morgan would want to be a part of this too.

    There are plenty of ideas to think about. I know you want to keep the Rockettes, but are there any other villains/heroes you want to keep?
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Manny on April 18th 2016, 11:06 am

    Well for starters, I kind of want to do something different from Marvel and DC. Just because we're using super heroes doesn't mean we have to use the same tropes they do.

    I'll list of a few points of things I want to do with spoiler boxes containing my reasons for it. If you want to read them go ahead, it's what their there for. It's going to be long though, I've been thinking about this for months.

    1. It is my personal wish to avoid magic and sapient aliens.
    Reasons:
    I've just never been a huge fan of magic, and being an alien just meant that there was an entire race out there just like said character. In other words, they're only special on Earth (for the most part).

    For example, Guardians of the Galaxy didn't really feel like a super hero movie to me but rather a sci-fi movie. It was a fantastic movie, but it kinda made the likes of Captain America and Iron Man seem insignificant in a way. Who cares about them when the every day citizen of the Nova Core probably has access to technology greater than that which created Captain America and Iron Man? In other words, the Nova Core could pump out soldiers the equivalent of Captain America + Iron Man + steroids if they felt like it, rendering those two heroes obsolete. An alien "animal" would be alright if it was like the symbiote in Spiderman minus the human level intellect.

    2. If my fellow writers are comfortable with it, I'd like to delve more human matters. In this regard we might stray a bit closer to Marvel than DC, but I like the realism behind it. However, we might stray into uncomfortable territory should the topics we touch become political, religious, or some other hot button topic. At the end of the day though, I feel that heroes are still people and as such will be affected by the same things ordinary people deal with (e.g. politics, religion, crime, social/political movements, etc) instead of merely being there to stop certain events from happening. There will be plenty of crime fighting, but I think the characters should take some time to reflect on the state of things and themselves.

    Reason:
    The reason I want to do this is because I feel it would add a more human layer to these superheroes. Having them act like humans dealing with everyday human issues is fine and all but there's more to life than that.

    Marvel did a nice issue on an anniversary of 9/11 where Spiderman was seeing the rescue efforts following the attacks. What I liked the most however was that you could see the attacks hit Spiderman just as hard as anyone else, showing a vulnerable side to him.

    In the realm of DC, I like the fact that Batman tends to ponder a lot about the state of Gotham city. He never gives up, but he does wonder if his "no killing" policy is what's causing his never ending battle or whether merely being Batman is causing more villains to appear.

    Other than that, I feel that most "weak spots" in superheroes are the classic family/relationship issues or reactions to a crisis created by some super villain or evil organization. I would rather see these superheroes react to real life problems created by humans. Despite all their power, some things will simply be out of their control and some these will be horrible.

    3. We still need have moments outside of combat that show case said characters as people. Moments where they laugh, cry, get mad, etc. Even if it's something as simply as someone losing at a video game and getting pissed.

    Reason:
    All my talk of wanting to create a complete character will be for nothing if we don't include the "smaller" moments in life as well.

    4. I think the group, or at least some of them, should be, in a way, reluctant heroes. Something along the lines of "if not us, then who"?

    Reason:
    Heroes and Demons was somewhat on this track; a bunch of misfits given a new purpose in life in the form of crime fighting. We could more or less go that route, but maybe flesh out better reasons for them joining. Jensen had Sam acknowledge the fact that no one else had his powers and so he was probably best qualified to deal with Alejandro. Likewise, Jordan became Beta to fight people like Alpha so when Alejandro showed up Jordan was already used to his role as protector of innocents.

    In this vein, João already has a purpose set up for him. The others I think could fall into that mindset and eventually grow into their role.

    5. At some point, I feel that realistic consequences need to appear. The movie Hancock with Will Smith had an interesting take on it, showing news reports of economic damage due to Hancock's superpowered battles.

    Reason:
    I think things like that should be present, and there should be a realistic response from governments and institutions. A Marvel Civil War situation could arise, should the government want metas under control due to the wanton destruction superpowered people tend to cause.

    6. I think Al and the concept of D.E.M.O.N.s might fit in better in this universe. To that end, I think I'll be using Al again. He might be a bit older and slightly more jaded, having been on the run and seeing a nastier side to people. Likewise, I think the objectives John thought up for Lucifer fit well with the big bad idea you guys have going on.

    Alternatively, we could have a new shared big bad and Lucifer could be competing with him/her for meta human support?

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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Doctor Jensen on April 18th 2016, 12:19 pm

    For Manny's post
    1. I'm with you on that one. I wouldn't mind if their were a few aliens that were not like the super powered humans, but either way it works for me. Might be better without them.

    2. I love that. I'd also like to see the humanity of our heroes. If it's alright, I'd like for my hero to start out almost as a villain. His suit has caused him to basically do whatever he wants. He wants food, he gets his. He wants money, he gets it. He is rather selfish in the beginning, which might cause him to get into a run in with Al and/or João. It'd be a good way to introduce the three of them.

    3. As long as it's connected to the story, I'm in. I mean, I guess Spider Man and other comics do that all the time, so we don't have too much to worry about.

    4. Agreed.

    5. I think that'd be a good way to make our universe, well, ours. We just need a good way for the government to do it, and something unique.

    6. Lucifer could be a good fit. Having two villains, making for four parties (heroes, Lucifer's squad, other villain squad, and the humans) could make for an interesting story. I just wonder if it wouldn't be somewhat difficult to do. With three of us, it might make it easier, but that remains to be seen.

    For me, I would like to leave out anything sexual, if at all possible (sexual tension is cool--in fact, I think it makes for good storytelling sometimes). I just feel like sex scenes--unless it's a major part point--tends to take away from storytelling. Insinuating something happened, or flat out saying something happened is perfectly fine, though, in my opinion.

    I had another idea, but for the life of me I can't remember it.

    Ah, I remember. why don't we make sure we can control each others' characters again. I thought that went fairly smoothly last time we did this collab. We can just edit anything we need to.
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Bad John on April 18th 2016, 1:03 pm

    I'm likewise down for all those ideas.

    A few details on João; he's kind of a mix between Punisher and Daredevil in terms of lethality. He doesn't kill as a general rule, since most situations don't require lethal force, and Saffore is firmly against killing. But, he will use lethal force if he's not given an alternative.

    He's only ever intentionally killed one enemy in combat; a meta-human was on a rampage, and had a small group of people cornered. João attacked, and applied a choke hold, strangling him to death. Saffore made him take a long break after that for psychiatric evaluation, but he never admitted to killing him intentionally.

    He accidentally killed someone who he assumed was a meta-human, and it was a very traumatic turning point. Saffore received reports of a meta human with enhanced strength and durability. When João arrived, there was an amount of destruction to a small suburban area that was in line with a meta human attack. When João found the assailant, he attacked with a single front kick, which killed the man. It turned out that the reports were false; he was just a man who was high on narcotics that impaired his judgement and caused him to act violently.

    The government and the public called for João to face the music. He turned himself in, believing that he wasn't above the law. Avoiding punishment for the debacle would set back Saffore's efforts to humanize metas by decades. The moment he turned himself over was immediately subdued and relocated to a government agency that nearly dissected him.

    Fortunately, the Rockettes bailed him out. João still believes in people, but he's deeply distrustful of the government at large. They nearly subjected him to unspeakable horrors, and ignored the fact that he was a person trying to do the right thing.

    As for the Rockettes, they mostly perform disaster relief in underdeveloped nations, outside of the main governmental superpower's jurisdiction. Things like natural disasters and civil unrest are their department. They draw a huge amount of support for meta human sympathizers, and anyone interested in apprehending them can't keep up with them due to Saffore's long range teleportation grid, and the government's clumsy lack of mobility.

    The public doesn't know about Saffore's organization; as a public face, she's simply a researcher who operates on private grants. Likewise, nobody knows where João or the Rockettes operate, or how they get in and out of locations so quickly.

    As for villains, I'd be tweaking the powers of the lower-class ones, but I presume we'd keep all the major villains. I have a few ideas for new ones, but they're in their infancy.

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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Doctor Jensen on April 18th 2016, 3:41 pm

    I like it. João seems like a pretty level headed guy. As for the Rockettes, I can't remember, but are they heroes or villains?

    I was just looking back at the story we were doing, and I feel like it was very much focused on action, but the story wasn't really there. Why don't we have more of a direction this time? Maybe outline the story a little bit more before we start. We might be able to make something impressive. You never know.
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Bad John on April 18th 2016, 3:44 pm

    They're heroes. Three women; their leader and the uncontested brawn of the group can manifest a rocky armor, and is very physically strong. One has water powers, can become water and can manipulate it. The youngest can fly and throw energy bolts. As for the story, I'd have to mull that over to come up with ideas. Anybody have some ideas off the top of their head?
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Shad0wChas3r on April 18th 2016, 4:27 pm

    Doctor Jensen wrote: I wonder if Morgan would want to be a part of this too.

    Sounds like a good time for sure! I won't be using Bryce this time around, however. I have this other Meta Human that I developed in the time of Heroes and Demons that I think might be a better protagonist from me than our friendly neighborhood ice-cream man.

    I'll flesh out more of the details later (mostly because I'm still developing the character), just understand that her 'Hero' name is Karma.


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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Doctor Jensen on April 18th 2016, 4:35 pm

    Off the top of my head, I'd say we start with kind of an origin story for each character. I'm not saying that we should go back to the beginning and explain how they became the hero, but at least give them a brief explanation as to who they are. Or maybe only with Al.

    I'm thinking we could start out with Al again. Have him become the Demon or escape from the testing facility and have him run amuck in the city a little bit. At that point we introduce Dragoon and have him take on the Demon. Dragoon is pretty tough, so he'll be able to take him for a little while. But eventually he'll get his trash kicked. during that, we can have João come in with some agents or something.

    This at least introduces one of the villians (which could be the leader of the DEMON project). He could be a more ruthless leader. After that the government might intervene, which wouldn't be a problem for João, who stopped Al, but Dragoon is going to have to run. He's the "Soldier of the City," but he's also wanted by the government.

    Overall, Lucifer's trying to create a Mutant state, maybe? Not trying to completely destroy humans, but wants mutants to have their own government. Whereas the leader of the DEMON project is trying to destroy... everything? I'm not entirely sure.

    Sounds good, Morgan.
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Manny on April 18th 2016, 7:47 pm

    The original idea behind DEMON was that it was a sort of super soldier program and that these soldiers would give their country an immense advantage in military operations. Basically, they were portable WMDs that could strike with the kind of precision a nuke would never be able to achieve.

    Eventually it morphed into something more sinister. In essence, the DEMONS would be less like soldiers and more like superpowered attack dogs. This was most obvious with Al, whose Demon form takes on a very vicious appearance.

    (Just right click on your mouse and see the image in a new tab if you want to see the full thing).

    Speaking of which, I've been thinking a lot about its "energy cloak". I suppose people could still call it that, but that's actually not feasible. Instead, I'm just going to to claim project DEMON was a genome editing process and that the super dense exoskeleton (purple stuff) is the result of alien DNA. It'll work and look much the same way as the previous iteration, it just has a slightly more plausible explanation behind it.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but Dragoon's symbiote isn't alive is it? It's more like a performance enhancing drug for aliens right? If it were a living thing, I was thinking that since the inspiration behind Al's Demon was the Carnage symbiote from Marvel, perhaps we could have the alien DNA be from a related species to Dragoon's symbiote? I suppose a good analogy, at the phenotype level, might be between a Lion and a Tiger. It's up to you, but the symbiote thing implies its alive but you called it a substance so that implies it's not alive.

    The reason I bring that up is because they both utilize some sort of "exoskeleton" so I figured it'd make sense if there some sort of relationship there. The other reason I bring it up is because it could lead into the conflict between Al and Dragoon at the start.

    A lion and a tiger would not be naturally friendly towards each other, so perhaps Al and Dragoon would act more aggressively towards each other than usual. Maybe something as simple as them bumping into each other sets them off, with both of them overreacting due to alien instincts. I'd imagine it'd take place near an alley and Al is knocked into while they argue and then he'd transform.

    Also, I don't think we'd see Lucifer just yet. Or perhaps we catch a glimpse of him watching from on top of a building or something. He'd be interested in Alejandro's progress and most definitely want to recruit him.

    Much father into the story, I had an idea for Al to reach a point where he loses his idealism of making a fairer world through relatively peaceful means. When he reaches this point, he'll begin to seriously question his allegiances.

    He is a bit of a history buff, and for many reasons the revolutions throughout history would fascinated him. The metas would be the ultimate form of the "proletariat" to him. Metas could be the common's man way of finally forcing the "greedy capitalist politicians" to put people's needs first... or else. It would be at this point where Al seriously considers joining Lucifer because Lucifer's plan is pretty close to that. He wants metas to keep the influential minority in line to benefit metas which also indirectly aids the average Joe because they, like metas, are not the top priority of the influential minority.

    The only thing holding him back would be the guilt he feels when thinking about leaving the same people who took him in (i.e. Saffore and Co). On a ideological level however, Al would have lost faith in Saffore's methods. Al would think that in order for metas to be accepted, or at worst feared but respected, they would have to do something to really change things, not just lock up a few punks.
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Bad John on April 18th 2016, 10:31 pm

    Interesting change.

    Also, hot damn, that face-heel turn. Heartbreaking stuff. :'(

    I was thinking; at times, the government itself is a bigger threat to Saffore and her people. Maybe way down the road they figure her out, and hunt down her headquarters.

    A large-scale hit-squad is sent to eliminate the heroes and their headquarters, and in a massive change of pace, the main "villain" comes to their rescue. The two organizations end up loosely working together for a time, due to a mutual enemy.

    Just spitballing here. I imagine the main villain respects Saffore due to her attempts to protect and train mutants, and he doesn't want to see a group of fellow meta humans hurt, so he'd have every incentive to both rescue a potential ally from home, and deliver a few I-told-you-sos.
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Bad John on April 18th 2016, 10:45 pm

    Oh. Also, pros and cons of João's powers;


      Pros
    • In terms of strength and speed, he's similar to Zack Fair from the Final Fantasy series; he can avoid direct gunfire if he knows it's coming, and can dent a steel beam with an attack. Not someone you'd want to mess with.

    • As long as the majority of his body is recovered, he can be resuscitated from death. Brain matter takes longer for him to regenerate, but even a severed head isn't impossible for him to survive, it would just take a lot of time to recover from.

    • He's not particularly afraid of physical damage, so as long as he's conscious and his body's structure is intact, he can will himself to continue a fight.

    • Transplanted organs or limbs will be slowly re-written with his DNA and become a part of his body. So if his heart or arm were destroyed, they could culture his own or someone else's DNA, and add it to him, with a 100% success rate. It would even begin to look like his own in a matter of hours.

      Cons

    • His body, in and out of combat, burns a lot of energy. He may not fatigue as easily, but he needs to eat way more than a normal person, especially when healing.

    • He has chronic and sustained nightmares from the damage he's taken, and the times he's technically "died."

    • Brain matter regeneration isn't natural for a human; as a result, he suffers debilitating migranes whenever his body regenerates brain matter.

    • He can only regrow parts that he has. He's not a lizard, and he's not Deadpool, so losing an arm would be an issue. Either someone has to go get it, or Saffore would have to culture his DNA and make a new one to attach.

    • If his body is completely incinerated or vaporized, game's over. At some point, I plan to have him thrown into an oven or something that risks completely rendering his body unrevivable; it'd be a race against time to get him out before he's dust.

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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Doctor Jensen on April 19th 2016, 12:03 am

    Dragoon's powers will either come from 1) an substance that becomes an exoskeleton for him, or 2) through a symbiote that is conscious and is somewhat sentient. Though I'm leaning towards the second one. The reason for this is, in my personal story, his suit comes from an alien that gives superpowers to beings throughout the galaxy. Seeding the galaxy with superheroes, if you will. In that case, that could be a good way of explaining Al and Dragoon having their powers. For the sake of this story, I might just do it like that. Though, the Demon would probably be far bigger than Dragoon though. Dragoon would still get his trash kicked.

    John, I agree with that idea about the government. My question is, would they go back to helping the government? I figure that that would be the breaking point for Al (though I can't say). Obviously this would be late in the story. Near the end perhaps. I could see the heroes still going back to help the government and convincing them that they needed the mutants' help. It would really show something about the mutants' humanity.

    I also imagine that the government would put out an order of arrest for all vigilantes/mutants.

    Oh, and this is very important. Dragoon can't take off his symbiote/exoskeleton. It's permanent. Except, there is a certain way he can take it off (like Venom or Carnage can). I just haven't thought of it yet.
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Manny on April 19th 2016, 11:46 am

    In the original H&D I had plans for Al to become a government agent. Essentially he'd end up being the soilder they wanted him to be.

    In this universe I can still picture Al working for the government at some point. He does love his country, believing in the saying "my country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right".

    I dunno. Maybe this is an alternative to Al joning Lucifer or maybe Al realizes that he just can't work with Lucifer becuase he can't bring himself to kill innocents if necessary. Or maybe he returns to Saffore group, but still being unsatisfied with their methods decides that metas need to be seen working within regular society to be accepted.

    In that case, Al could sell Lucifer out and enlist in the armed forces as a sort of retribution for any past crimes and having been part of Saffore's group. At that point, Al would probably be busy either settling civil unrest (e.g. riot control, preventing meta/normal terrorist attacks, natural disaster relief, arresting/capturing meta villans, etc) or overseas in actual war.

    I suppose he might be seen as the ultimate "race" traitor but some metas might join him; believing in his idea that in order to be accepted into society metas must publicy integrate and benefit regular society.

    I imagine Al would hold no ill will towards Saffore's group but he might start comepeting with her for recruits. The government would probably set up some sort of training facility where metas would be trained in "authorized" uses of their powers. Generally being a good Samaritan with your powers would be acceptable, but if it conflicts with government interests then it may be considered an "unauthorized" use.

    Once registered and trained these metas would not be hunted down by the government. They could be given a card of some sort to showcase to authorities after publicy using their powers. It would be a sort of incentive for metas to join, and provide then some level of protection from the "meta witch hunts" the government and people conduct. Basically it creates "legal" and "illegal" metas.

    A good criticism of the program is that the government is essentially threatening to hunt down those that don't wish to openly expose themselves. Another would be that the cards resemble freedom papers freed slaves used to have, showcasing how much the government wants to keep metas under their control. Despite this, Al would be for it because it provides metas a chance to openly be a meta in society and help without having to hide (I.e. be vigilantes).

    This whole business with the government is something Al would probably do a few years down the road because it'd take a while to get there and he'd need to be more mature. I figure this story won't be done in the course of a few months but neither will it be a few years. Maybe Al working for the government is another story for another day but the seeds can be planted from now.
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Bad John on April 19th 2016, 4:35 pm

    To answer your question, Jensen, I doubt Saffore's forces ever really worked for the government to begin with. They stayed under the radar, and lended a helping hand to normal people unconditionally.

    After being attacked by the government, I imagine there would be a very tense alliance with Lucifer, until, during their partnership, Lucifer carried out an attack, or voiced intention to do so, that would leave a lot of collateral damage and normal people dead.

    Al joining the military after the fact would put a very bad taste in João's mouth, but mostly he'd be horrified for Al's safety. I imagine the government has several programs dedicated to creating superhumans or equipment to combat the "meta human threat," and taking Al apart to see what makes him tic would further their goals.

    Oh, a bit of backstory on the Rockettes I brainstormed recently.

    João was Saffore's first combat capable and ready meta human, and he recruited the three of them.

    Tara Bills, AKA Rockette, stayed low and worked as a vigilante for years. Eventually, Jo (Just gonna call him Jo since that squiggly a is annoying to make) tracked her down on Saffore's orders. He saw her using her powers to pull a bus out of a lake. Tara noticed him, and when he found her apartment, she blindsided him, managing to knock him unconscious. She recognized him as a vigilante, and made the assumption that he worked for the government, and was sent to track her down.

    She tried to bury him alive in the desert, but Saffore and several of her employees personally intervened, managing to talk her down. She came in for an interview, and decided to join. She and Jo still don't get along, and whenever Jo disagrees with her, he passive aggressively brings up how she nearly put him underground for no reason.

    Her powers are the same as last time; super strength, and the ability to form rocky armor that roughly doubles her size and muscle power. In her normal human form, she's strong enough to bull Jo backwards, though she's not nearly as fast. In her rocky form, she has quite a bit more speed, can tank hits with no visible problem, and can lift and throw a truck.

    Sylvia Regis, AKA Sylphide, was an open, daring vigilante. She and Jo often crossed paths, but she'd leave every time the dust settled before he could talk to her. Saffore managed to track her down, and Jo approached her in public. She disabled his teleportation device so he couldn't retreat back to base, and she destroyed his communicator. Jo went missing for days, until he arrived on foot back at base with Sylvia. They had a week long fling, and Sylvia decided to join Saffore's group. Jo never talks about the incident.

    Her powers are the exact same as well; she has hydrokinesis, conventional attacks pass through her, and she can add water to become larger and more powerful. Practically, she is the most powerful meta human in Saffore's entire group; she cannot be killed via conventional means, only slowed, captured, or rendered inert by freezing or boiling her. Eventually she'll thaw out or re-emerge once the vapor turns back into water.

    And Maryl Martin, AKA Martini. Jo didn't recruit her; she's actually the child of one of Saffore's employees. Saffore was giving her a rudimentary, complimentary check-up when she accidentally caused a power-surge in one of her machines. It was then discovered that she had abnormally high discharges through her nervous system, and she could direct them.

    Changing her powers completely; she's got electrokinesis. She can steal power, use her body to complete circuits, or blast you with lightning. She's the most vulnerable of the Rockettes, but her powers come in useful very often.

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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Doctor Jensen on April 19th 2016, 6:35 pm

    Okay, so we're starting to figure out the story. I'll write out what we have so far. Keep in mind, there's a lot to fill in.

    Beginning:
    Dragoon and Al are introduced in battle. Dragoon gets his trash kicked, and João and Morgan's character join the fray. I'm also thinking of keeping Samson as part of the story and having him join at this point. The battle becomes very heated and Dragoon, João and Samson(?) end up taking Alejandro down.

    It's at this point that the government shows up and demands justice. João, Al, and Samson, and Morgan's character go back to the base, while Dragoon escapes, to be reintroduced later when he's needed (eventually he'll just flat out join Saffore's squad.

    Middle:
    Several battles occur between Saffore's squad and Lucifer and the DEMON (if I remember correctly) project's people. Each time something important is revealed about the purposes of both Lucifer's and DEMON's intentions.

    Eventually the government finds out about Saffore's operation and brings in a huge strike squad to take them down. This leads Saffore's people to make a shaky alliance with Lucifer's people, but things don't end too well when Lucifer's people attack normal people/the government/etc.

    I have to leave right now, but add what you want to that. I think that we still have a ton of plot points to add and discuss, but this is just a small part of what we've talked about.
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    Re: Superhero Collab

    Post  Manny on April 19th 2016, 7:32 pm

    So in the beginning maybe we catch a glimpse of Lucifer watching from afar, as he would be keeping an eye on Al. I don't know if Saffore would know of Lucifer is at this point (I'm not sure if we've established him as the big bad, or one of two), but if she does then perhaps it's worth noting they got to Al before he did by sheer luck.

    Later on, should Lucifer be the one to save Saffore's group, the heroes could witness his power firsthand without fighting him; leaving them to ponder how to actually go about defeating him once they do split ways. I'd imagine that they would have already fought the other DEMONs by this point.

    While the two are together, maybe Al could interact more with the other Seven Princes of Hell (i.e. Lucifer and Co) and really learn to use his DEMON. At some point, he'll be able to seamlessly switch between forms and stay in control (mostly). The beast form (the one in the picture from before) is one he can use in bursts but shouldn't be using for any extended period of time.

    Also during this time maybe the seeds are planted in Al's mind about whose ideas he actually agrees with. Seeing Lucifer attack innocent people though could ultimately prevent Al from joining him but the attack by the government might convince Al that Saffore's methods simply don't work. It is at this point the seeds have been planted for Al to pave his own way in the future, sticking to Saffore only out of personal loyalty.

    Bad John wrote:Al joining the military after the fact would put a very bad taste in João's mouth, but mostly he'd be horrified for Al's safety. I imagine the government has several programs dedicated to creating superhumans or equipment to combat the "meta human threat," and taking Al apart to see what makes him tic would further their goals.
    Project DEMON is one of those programs. They made Al into what he is; they already know what makes him tick. Lucifer, Saffore, and the others just tamed the beast; the government reaps the rewards.

    I guess the story behind the government experimenting on one of their own citizens is that Al enlisted when he was 18 to have a way to pay for university. Then he actually got deployed, possibly hit by a bioweapon, and then signed up for the DEMON project out of desperation to survive. So technically he was a volunteer and, in a way, the alien DNA saved him but it was more than he bargained for.

    The choice for him to later serve the very same people who did this to him might seem absurd, but Al might reason that he is doing it for other metas to have a chance at integration no matter what his personal feelings might be towards the government.

    Bad John wrote:Changing her powers completely; she's got electrokinesis. She can steal power, use her body to complete circuits, or blast you with lightning. She's the most vulnerable of the Rockettes, but her powers come in useful very often.
    This will  be useful against DEMONs as anything that administers high amounts of energy at a high rate causes pain to them.

    Basically electricity and fire cause the most damage, as would a nuclear attack (nuke is overkill, but Lucifer can unleash beams of nuclear energy from his hands). In theory, kinetic energy works too but no one can deliver it fast enough (unless you had someone like the Flash repeatedly punch Al). The only one immune to this is Lucifer, who actually absorbs energy. To not make him too OP, perhaps when you overload him, using a ridiculous amount of energy, it seriously hurts him to the point where he is incapable of fighting. You can't kill him, but you can make him back off for some time. Alternatively, we could keep him OP and then the heroes have to devise a victory that isn't "might makes right".

    Bad John wrote:To answer your question, Jensen, I doubt Saffore's forces ever really worked for the government to begin with. They stayed under the radar, and lended a helping hand to normal people unconditionally
    When Al does go "official", I suppose this is what he'd be against. Metas trying to do their own thing, hidden away from society in some secret base and exacting justice with no regard to human society's laws. Obviously they're not bad people, but rules are rules.

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